Constant disappointment

[supercheesegirl]

Remember my email about apple caramel bagel? I got a reply.

Dear Roxanne,
The Apple Caramel Bagel surely has a devout following. Unfortunately, sales of that variety were not that strong along with the fact that it would make our bagel ovens very sticky and hard to clean. The caramel would then be on many other varieties. Finagle is experimenting with other sweet varieties and I hope we will introduce one that agrees with your tastes. Thanks for your e-mail.
Tom Army - Finagle A Bagel

Also, I wrote to the guys at homestarrunner.com to request that they make a StrongMad shirt.

Dear Brothers Chaps,

I have been waiting for so long for a StrongMad shirt. He's my favorite. I would happily wear him on a t-shirt, babydoll, or hoodie. My boyfriend has purchased several shirts featuring your characters, but I continue to hold out for StrongMad. He's the best! I was thinking a cute design might be to have StrongMad on the front, and on the back, an image of a crumpled-up piece of paper and the slogan "It's a crane!" But I would probably buy whatever StrongMad shirt you decided to produce. Come on, guys, please?

Roxanne

*****

Sorry, Roxanne, we just don't have that many fans requesting Strong Mad shirts. We don't plan on making one. Thanks for being a Homestar fan, though.

Sincerely,
The Homestar Store

The world exists only to disappoint me.

Comments

[deadwinter.livejournal.com]

This calls for an INTERNET CAMPAIGN!

I will email them presently and inquire about a Strong Mad t-shirt

[supercheesegirl.livejournal.com]

Rawk! \m/

[darxus.livejournal.com]

Why don't you make your own strong mad shirt ?

[mrpet.livejournal.com]

copyright?

[darxus.livejournal.com]

Would it bother you if she made herself a shirt because the copyright holder refused to ? Or was this just an example of a possible reason she might have ?

[birdmaddgirl.livejournal.com]

copyright law allows for fair use, so technically rox could make her own strongmad shirt for personal use without infringement. or i could make rox a strongmad shirt and give it to her with a big bow. but no one could sell it.

of course, her point about supporting the site is a good one. i'm not trying to suggest that buying official merchandise is for suckahs. but if one is industrious enough to create one's own tshirt, it's not illegal.

on a similar note, it's not actually possible for me to get a Serenity shirt right now, and i'm probably going to make one. when it neither breaks a law nor duplicates licensed products, i'm all for DIY.

[woodwardiocom.livejournal.com]

copyright law allows for fair use, so technically rox could make her own strongmad shirt for personal use without infringement.

-Based on my understanding of copyright law, that's not the case. Noncommerical use is not necessarily "fair". In particular, if Rox made her own shirt(s), that would diminish the market for an authorized StrongMad shirt, and thus could be argued as not fair use. (Of course, if she makes just one shirt, no one really cares, but . . . )

-Anyway, the Wikipedia article on fair use seems to be accurate.

[mrpet.livejournal.com]

that would diminish the market for an authorized StrongMad shirt,

This is how I understand it to be. There is also the case that can be made that a substandard shirt can diminish the market for _all_ HSR shirts due to perceived loss of quality, not that supercheesegirl would ever make a less than excellent shirt.

This whole discussion is going to theoretical waters. I seriously doubt that anyone making a single shirt would ever get targeted for a lawsuit. Just like the AP would probably never sue someone who posts a complete copy of one their news stories to thier blog instead of making a short synopsis and a link to the full article.

[birdmaddgirl.livejournal.com]

it's true that noncommercial use is not necessarily "fair," but obviously i'm simplifying and applying to this specific instance. (the lj comment function is only so mighty) it's a legal game of interpretation. you can say that such actions "would diminish the market for an authorized StrongMad shirt" but i could argue that it would *increase* the market for an authorized StrongMad shirt. and we'd both be right. that's why lawyers are so goddamm filthy rich.

[mrpet.livejournal.com]

Fair use allows for someone to quote you but they can't modify your whole design and claim fair use. Just because you didn't sell/make money on it, it doesn't matter. Bill Waterson (sp?) has been fighting people who are making those Calvin pissing decals for years, you can see now that they have morphed into something that doesn't look like Calvin anymore but can be recognized from where it came from.

How is this for an analogy...What if I made a program that looked like a Microsoft product that they will not make for me, lets say Microsoft Windows/AW (Actually Works) Edition and gave it to a friend to use. Now word gets out that someone has a Microsoft product that actually works *g* and Microsoft gets wind of it. How long do you thing it will take until Microsoft starts legal procedings :) Microsoft can't sue me for look and feel since they lost that battle with Apple, never mind the fact that both of them stole the idea from Zerox. They can sue me since I was claiming that the product came from them (I don't have to even put the name Microsoft in the title, just ask Mike Rowe ;)

The same holds true for the Brother's Chaps, if there were to surface a StrongMad shirt it can be reasonably assuming that they made it.

[birdmaddgirl.livejournal.com]

i'd like to be obvious, since this is the internet, and say that i'm not trying to suggest that i don't sympathize with creators' rights to their own output or the notion that that output should be vigorously defended. mostly i just find the inner workings of copyright law to be really fascinating and i've dealt with it academically quite a lot. so i hope that i'm not typing and sounding like an ass. ; )

the calvin decals are made for commercial use, and it's obvious where the image comes from, but they are substantially different from the original and, it could be argued, parody it. mostly, the legal issues like these aren't actually about right v. wrong, but shades of gray and who can spend more money on legal fees.

it's extremely problematic to use a computer-technology analogy. our current copyright laws are decades old and they're still not hammered out in any standard way (which is why discussions like this go on constantly). rights issues involving computer programming are complicated in a whole other series of ways that exceed copyright issues (your analogy, for example, brings in issues of patent law because Microsoft is an inventor as well as a copyright and trademark holder). comparing technological copyright to an image copyright does have some similar principles are work, but it's really legally comparing apples to kiwi.

the issue of reasonably assuming that the B.C. made the shirt would depend greatly on the design. what if i made my own drawing of StrongMad and then made an iron-on transfer out of that? i didn't create the character, but it's my original art. and that's just part of the bigger problem with copyright law. it's enormously vague, so there's just no end to the permutations we could come up with.

[supercheesegirl.livejournal.com]

Because that doesn't support the site. It's like stealing.

[darxus.livejournal.com]

Okay, so email the guy and say "If I give you $5 may I make myself a strong mad shirt ?"

[mrpet.livejournal.com]

I would seriously doubt that they would allow this. As someone who does creative works I would never allow someone to use my work unless I did the final OK of the artwork. If the shirt wasn't up to _their_ standards then people might think that the Bro's are the one's responsible for the sub standard shirt. Seeing as how they make a living off of selling shirts their reputation is at stake.

[supercheesegirl.livejournal.com]

Seeing as how they make a living off of selling shirts...

Yes, this is exactly why I would not make myself a shirt. I support their site and the work they're doing, I want to buy a damn shirt from them. All creative stuff should be the same way--if I'm not sure I like a band, I'll borrow or download the album, but if I do like them I will make an effort to go buy the cd.

[darxus.livejournal.com]

Oh, and I think a hot chick wearing an advertisement for them is definitely supporting the site. They should be paying you.

[katkt.livejournal.com]

I definitely think you're reaching with that one.

I think if she's motivated enough to make the t-shirt she should so totally do that and there's nothing wrong with it. But the advertisement rationalization is definitely a stretch.

And, Rox, thanks. I haven't thought of homestarrunner in like forever. I didn't realize how much I missed the fhqwgads song. :-)

[supercheesegirl.livejournal.com]

If I was standing around in Harvard Square wearing only a Homestar Runner sandwich board, I could see asking for payment. A t-shirt, no.

[mrpet.livejournal.com]

If you were in the square wearing nothing but a HSR sandwich board I know that I would donate...Seriously :)

[mrpet.livejournal.com]

I came for the hot naked girls, I stayed for the hot naked Strongmad.
best quote EVAR!

StrongMad on SG!

[birdmaddgirl.livejournal.com]

oh, yeah, and rox, sorry about your bagels! = (

rally cry

[lukeyes.livejournal.com]

You know what? I want a Strong Mad T-shirt too. I'm going to rally up all the homestar troops I know and we're going to request one with ya. Not enough interest? Well darn it, we'll generate interest. StrongMad is awesome and needs more of the limelight.

Re: rally cry

[supercheesegirl.livejournal.com]

Heck yes!! Thanks, Luke, you rock! :)