heroes!

[supercheesegirl]

Why the hell weren't you watching Heroes tonight? Yes, you. How many times have I told you that it's the best damn show on TV? Many times. Now you are missing out. You are missing out big time. GO DOWNLOAD THE EPISODES FOR GOODNESS SAKE! Although at this point you might as well just wait the four more weeks until the season's over and download it all at once. But I am telling you that this show is so good that you should not wait one more minute to start watching it.

For those of y'all who are smart and watch Heroes, some thoughts on tonight's episode:

- Wow, Sprague cleans up nice. And good work with the EMP there. I am proud that I know what an EMP is, although the coolness of my knowledge is tempered by the fact that I learned it playing the Buffy video game.
- Somebody needs to take out that shapeshifting bitch. For serious. I am always and forever now going to be suspecting every single character of being her until she dies. Alas, she's got long legs, and shapeshifting is a cool ability, so I doubt they'll write her out. I just wish they'd given the shapeshifting to someone less annoying.
- Go Peter Petrelli, standing up to Sylar! Go bloody Mohinder, for knocking Sylar unconscious!
- Bad Peter Petrelli, for not calling Mohinder up to let him know you're not dead! He freakin' brought your body to your mother, he deserves to know!
- Goddammit why do Peter and Claire have to be related?!!!
- Holy crap what can Mama Petrelli do? I hope it's something cool. Although based on this family she might just have super-powered bullshit deflectors. Or a super-powered PR generator.
- Based on Lindermann's description of his past, and his "friends" who tried to make a better world--I think Hiro's dad, aka GEORGE TAKEI, has a power. And he keeps it secret. There's obviously a connection between Hiro's dad and Lindermann, if Bennet took orders from Hiro's dad and, as we found out for sure from Parkman tonight, Lindermann runs the paper company.
- YES EVERYONE GO TO NEW YORK AND BUILD YOUR SECRET SUPER HIDEOUT ALREADY!
- I don't want Mr. Isaac to be dead. Although he was way brave and strong and awesome, facing Sylar like that.
- Future Hiro! Woot!
- I think it's really cool and really interesting that we're skipping ahead five years next week. But as Hiro has shown us, with his sweet waitress's death, the future can't be changed. So how are we going to change the future that will be shown to us in the +5yr episode next week? I mean, if the future of +5yrs sucks, then it seems pretty obvious that we will avert the explosion somehow and avoid it, averting the deaths of everyone in New York City. Which means, therefore, that it's also possible to avert Isaac's death and the waitress's death, and heck, even Mohinder's dad's death and the superhearing mechanic's death and everybody else's death. But it also means that it's possible the writers could pull something really lame and make it so that none of the events of this entire season ever happened, because Hiro went back and killed Sylar at birth or something. That would really make me mad. I just don't want the awesomeness of this show to end with "Hey, due to a time travel glitch, none of this really happened!" because that would really really suck.
- Hey. Now that Hiro can time travel with friends... could he go into the past and grab somebody (say, the waitress) and transport forward in time, with her, past the moment of her death, thus cheating it and averting her death? I would be cool with that.
- Peter Petrelli Peter Petrelli!

::edit:: some more thoughts this morning, some of which are in the comments here and on sarahpender's post:

- Maybe the way to stop New York from blowing up is to stop Sprague from going there. This thought didn't even occur to me last night (as you can see from my YES GO TO NEW YORK ALREADY bullet above), but really, Sprague's the radioactive guy, so where else is Peter going to get that power from? And Sprague can barely control his own power, so how is Peter going to be able to control it? Maybe fixing the future will be as simple as Hiro locking Sprague in a basement somewhere for the next week.

- Um, what can Nathan's other kids do? Besides function as minor plot points, that is? Everyone else who has a child and has powers has a child with powers, and Nathan's other child has powers, so one can assume that his non-bastard children can probably do something cool too. And it's not that they're too young to have discovered it yet--I seem to remember them being around Micah's age. I'm surprised this hasn't occurred to Nathan yet--if I were him, I'd be pulling them out of school before they make the class pet frog turn into a mouse or something, thus attracting publicity.

Comments

[pocketwitch.livejournal.com]

I watched it! Emily got into it first and I've been watching along with her. I haven't seen the first half of the season. And I'll admit I've been a bit slow to get into it - it doesn't hurt that I'm fangirling several things right now so my fangirl-level is spread a bit thin. I'm getting more and more invested in it, though.

I am in love with Mama Petrelli. She is made of awesome.

[supercheesegirl.livejournal.com]

What is it with you and hot middle-aged women?

I love this show. I hope you get to love it too. I thought last night's episode was just great. Did you see the Bennet/Claire episode of a few weeks ago? That one was amazing.

[pocketwitch.livejournal.com]

LOL! I don't actually love Mama Petrelli in that way. I just think she's awesome. But I will not deny I do have a thing for older women. Older women with power, poise and control. Daaaaaaamn.

And yes, I saw the Bennet/Claire episode; I think I probably saw that one too early in my Heroes-watching to fully appreciate it, though. That might've only been the 2nd one I saw, I can't remember for sure. It was good, definitely, but I think I would appreciate it more if I saw it again after having seen more.

[theemdash]

Somebody needs to take out that shapeshifting bitch.

Actually, she's not a shapeshifter. She distorts reality. When she first shows up to "save" Issac, she makes it so that Simone's body disappears from the bed.

Goddammit why do Peter and Claire have to be related?!!!

I'd like to second that. OMG.

There's obviously a connection between Hiro's dad and Lindermann, if Bennet took orders from Hiro's dad and, as we found out for sure from Parkman tonight, Lindermann runs the paper company.

I think Mama Petrelli is part of it, too. Basically, I'm going to suspect the parents of every adult character we see. Maybe even Nikki's dad?!

But as Hiro has shown us, with his sweet waitress's death, the future can't be changed.

Hiro hasn't shown us that yet.

One of the things about time travel is that by changing a single event in the past, you can actually muck up your own development. So, for example, if he killed Sylar some of those heroes might not have discovered their powers when they did and then wouldn't be there to help Hiro and . . .

You can't (or rather shouldn't) change the past. But you can change the future. You can always change the future. Just because it's shown as a possible future (or written in a prophecy) doesn't mean it has to happen—haven't you been watching Buffy? ;)

Also, in the world of comics, viewing the possible future is practically a cliche. But it is just a possible future.

[supercheesegirl.livejournal.com]

Actually, she's not a shapeshifter. She distorts reality. When she first shows up to "save" Issac, she makes it so that Simone's body disappears from the bed.

Do you disagree that she should die?

I think Mama Petrelli is part of it, too. Basically, I'm going to suspect the parents of every adult character we see. Maybe even Nikki's dad?!

I like how they've been all gradual with the revelations. Like, very gradually, we figured out that Hero-ness could be hereditary, and the child of adult heroes is likely to be one too, like Micah. But it's only recently dawned on me that the *adult* heroes are somebody's children too, and that if they are heroes, then their parents could be. I was like, OMG!

RE time travel:

Okay, I think it's splitting hairs to say that something that occurred right now is in the present and then it's the past and it can't be changed if I time travel backwards, yet if I time travel forwards and see and inhabit a possible future, I can go back to my own present and change that. If I am the time traveler, then what I am experiencing is always the present, no matter where I *should* be in time. I'm not talking about paintings of the future, or prophecies--they are mere shadows of what could be, not what must be, to paraphrase Ebenezer--but Hiro is actually *in the future* right now, experiencing it. Yet he's going to come back and try to change that, and I don't see that as any different than going back and trying to save the waitress or save Isaac. I realize I'm not well versed in the comics world here, but that's just what makes sense to me.

[theemdash]

Do you disagree that she should die?

I think it's the Plaid Skirt of Evil that bothers me most about her. I kind of hate her the same way I hated Lilah. I just wish she had more depth. (Lilah did get that, but there was a time when she was waaaaay too one-note.)

If I am the time traveler, then what I am experiencing is always the present, no matter where I *should* be in time.

Yes, it should be, but that's not the way most people think. It's this whole, "I have to get back to my time" mentality.

but Hiro is actually *in the future* right now, experiencing it.

But it's still just a possibility of the future.

It has to do with the Multiple Universe Theory, if you really want to know. Every possible decision splits off into a new universe, thus creating a different possible future. Time traveling to the future is more like glimpsing what will happen if events continue on their current path. If Hiro went back to the "present" (to his natural timeline), then he could attempt to change events, but unless he knows what event will change things, then that future he saw will come to pass . . . probably come to pass.

Yet he's going to come back and try to change that, and I don't see that as any different than going back and trying to save the waitress or save Isaac.

Well, a more recent event like Charlie or Isaac is less dangerous to change because there are fewer permutations to affect. But, like, killing Sylar at birth would do all sorts of things to screwing up his timeline including preventing Papa Surresh from meeting Sylar and basing a lot of his research on Slyar's genetic make up. But if Hiro were to do something more subtle, like, remove Isaac from his apartment before Sylar arrived, then he could probably save Isaac. Of course Sylar's kind of committeed, so it's likely he would just kill him later.

And Charlie was dying from a tumor anyway. That's kind of like the girl from "Help" in Buffy. Buffy kept trying to save her, but she was going to die anyway from a completely different reason.

It's possible that I watch too much sci-fi.

[supercheesegirl.livejournal.com]

But... but... he could take Charlie to Lindermann and he could heal the tumor!

I'm totally stretching here. I *liked* Charlie.

Who wears little plaid skirts these days anyway??

Knowing what he had painted, why didn't Isaac hop a plane to Bermuda? Although that's more a characterization choice and less of a knowing-the-future choice.

I am still all mixed up over this time travel stuff. I feel like, in the mythology that the show has established--removed from the realm of comic books, just based on what the show itself has established, because the show has a much wider audience than comic books do and can't assume that everyone will be familiar with comic book universe time travel theory--based on what's been established in the show, it would not be possible to change something that's in the future. What Isaac paints can't be changed, what Hiro sees when he time travels can't be changed, so how are they going to change the future that Hiro's seeing in 5 years? Something big is going to have to happen to make that happen. And I just don't want that to be one of those "oh, we changed time so none of the past six months ever happened" lame plot twists. I want the plot twist to be cool. That's all I'm saying.

[theemdash]

Although that's more a characterization choice and less of a knowing-the-future choice.

Ultimately, I think Isaac was too scared of doing much of anything.

feel like, in the mythology that the show has established--removed from the realm of comic books, just based on what the show itself has established, because the show has a much wider audience than comic books do and can't assume that everyone will be familiar with comic book universe time travel theory--based on what's been established in the show, it would not be possible to change something that's in the future.

The Multiverse Theory isn't restricted to comic books, it's actual theoretical physics, which is why it's so often used in comics/sci-fi to explain time travel. Hell, Back to the Future uses the Multiverse Theory.

And I just don't want that to be one of those "oh, we changed time so none of the past six months ever happened" lame plot twists. I want the plot twist to be cool.

I don't think it's going to be stupid. And I don't think it has to be big. I do think it will be something like: Getting Peter out of New York, or Killing Sprague. Actually, maybe they do destroy the city but save the people. Just because there's massive destruction 5 years in the future, doesn't mean that there will be massive a kill-count.

Also I stand by the Multiverse Theory. Nothing in the show canon has yet contradicted it. We really haven't been shown that things can't change, just that they haven't changed.

Plus, Linderman pointed out that the others working with him started using their powers for personal gain and that's a no-no, apparently. Perhaps that's why Hiro couldn't save Charlie (in the cosic scheme, I mean, maybe there's "rules" beyond in a TPB way), because saving Charlie would have been for personal gain because he liked her, not because it was his mission.

*shrug*

Theories. *hand waves* It's all just theories.

[supercheesegirl.livejournal.com]

I stand by my original statement--wider audience of the show cannot be expected to know and understand comic book theory OR theoretical physics. Whatever the writers do, it has to be consistent with what happened before, ie Hiro claiming that the future can't be changed. He has to prove himself wrong, basically, and show that it can.

I don't want Sprague to die. His character is starting to get less crazy and more interesting.

I kind of think that saving someone's life isn't really for personal gain, unless it's your own life. But if you prevent someone else's death, no matter why you're doing it, whether you're a complete altruist or just in love or they owe you money or whatever, you're still saving the life of another human being. So I don't think the self-interest theory works here.

[theemdash]

I don't disagree that it's something that the writers need to show in an episode, but I was just explaining how I think they'll explain it. Which is, afterall, what you asked initially. ;)

I don't want Sprague to die either, but I could see something like that as being a catalyst to preventing the explosion.

[supercheesegirl.livejournal.com]

Well, I could tie Sprague up in a basement somewhere until the danger has passed. Really. I wouldn't mind.

[sarahpender.livejournal.com]

That was an awesome episode.

I think Candace is an illusionist. That's how I'm thinking of her power, anyway. And yes, so needs to die.

I'm not sure how they're going to handwave fixing Future Hiro's Bad Past, but I wonder if he's going to explain what he meant when he told Peter he was "risking a rift" by coming to speak with him.

I was wondering why Mohinder didn't take that opportunity to pick up the gun and finish off Syler while he was unconscious for the second time.

[supercheesegirl.livejournal.com]

"Illusionist" is probably more accurate than "shapeshifter", you're right. But I think the technical term for Candace is "bitch", so I'm going to go with that. :)

I hope we get lots of good time travel info next week. I'm very confused about the time travel right now--I mean, not necessarily the travel itself, but the consequences of changing things in the time stream (see conversation with theemdash above)--and I think I would like FutureHiro to explain it to me.

I think Mohinder was like, "Shit, that guy had me stapled to the ceiling, let's get the hell out of here!" Although I wonder why he thought it was okay to go back to his apartment, because there he was later on in the episode.

[supercheesegirl.livejournal.com]

Also, did no one in the entire city of New York, including the cab driver, see bloody Mohinder heaving Peter's dead body about and question it? Hello, city of New York in the middle of the afternoon!

[sarahpender.livejournal.com]

Wouldn't Mohinder have used his own cab? That way he'd avoid another witness. Or does he not still have a cab? I've lost track.

[supercheesegirl.livejournal.com]

I don't think we ever got any confirmation that Mohinder ever recovered his cab, actually. The last we saw of it was him getting out and running away after Bennet freaked him out.

[sleepyworm.livejournal.com]

Would it be presumptuous to assume that you're referring to me? My guess is very few people you know actually know how to download tv shows...

[supercheesegirl.livejournal.com]

There are lots of people I know who are both capable of downloading shows and who aren't watching Heroes. But yes, you are one of those people. AND THIS SHOW IS AWESOME. And there's time travel! You love things with time travel! And there are mysteries that we actually get answers to! And many attractive characters who have sexy superpowers!

Seriously, though, I think you would really like this show. Next week's episode is going to be pretty heavy with the time travel (our heroes are going to have to figure out what changes to make in the present time stream in order to prevent a possible future), and it made me think of you.

No super robots yet, though. There's a kid who can control electronic devices and a chick who can access the internets with her brain, but there are no super robots. If super robots ever show up, you will have to start watching!

[sleepyworm.livejournal.com]

when the season is over, I'll definitely download it and give it a try. And I'm sure you'll hear about it when I post about it! :)

[bulleteyes.livejournal.com]

Almost sounds like Mama Petrelli can redict the future. Hmm.

[supercheesegirl.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad you said that. I bet she does. I bet that's why Peter sometimes has prophetic dreams--because he absorbed the power from his mom and didn't even know it. I am very excited about this theory!

[robotpistol.livejournal.com]

I taped the episode and didn't watch it until last night, so I just now read your post.

I got the distinct impression that Mama Petrelli was one of the crew Lindermann assembled back in the day--the group he alluded to while talking to Nathan in the hotel kitchen.

When Mama Petrelli said to Claire, "I regret a lot of the choices I've made," I assumed she was referring to working with Lindermann in the past. Which might even explain how Lindermann was tipped off to Nathan's existence or Nathan's potential for having powers. I mean, Lindermann doesn't have The List, yet he seems to know who all the Heroes are and what their powers are. He's gotta get the intel from somewhere. Keeping tabs on his old crew and their offspring and friends seems like a good way to ferret out potential Heroes.

Also, about Nathan's children: we know that Micah's parents *both* have powers. We know that Claire's birth parents *both* have powers. I guarantee that Hiro's dad has a power, but we don't yet know about his mom. We know that Mama Petrelli has powers but don't know about Daddy Petrelli. (Do we know anything about Daddy Petrelli? I can't recall where he is or if he died.) The possibility has been left open that children only have powers if *both* parents do. Perhaps only one parent being a Hero makes it distinctly less likely for the children?

In addition, Nathan and Peter didn't/don't seem to know about their mother's potential to have a power. She has only hinted to Claire about possibly doing super stuff, and Claire doesn't seem to have shared the info (yet). The Haitian was not at the Petrelli home when Nathan showed up. Has Nathan ever seen the Haitian? Perhaps Nathan and Peter haven't cottoned on, and Nathan doesn't suspect his other children might be capable of anything. Plus, while in Monday's episode Peter apparently rose from the dead, I can't remember a scene where he explained how and why to his mother. I also can't recall any scene in the show where he has told his mother he absorbs other people's powers. In which case...has he absorbed his mother's power, and if so, when and what was it? Has Nathan told his mother he can fly?

I didn't start watching until week 3 or 4, so maybe those things were established in Episodes 1-3.

[supercheesegirl.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm pretty suspicious of the whole Lindermann generation of heroes. We should include Invisible Claude in that count, too--obviously not as high up as Lindermann and apparently Mama P, but certainly involved in the group way back when.

Daddy Petrelli died a few years ago. Peter thought he died of a heart attack, but after Peter's first jump off a building, when Peter was injured and had to go to the hospital, Mama P confessed that Daddy had battled depression for years and had killed himself. Nathan has alluded to the fact that Daddy P's indebtedness to Lindermann weighed on his mind really heavily and might have had an impact on the situation. So, yeah, the Petrellis have had the Lindermann connection from way back, and we don't know that Daddy P didn't have a power.

We also don't know if Nikki/Jessica's dad had a power. Besides complete assholery, which he seemed to be taking to superhuman levels. I wonder if DL's mom can do anything--we've met her, but other than being fiercely protective and defensive of her son, we haven't seen her do anything.

Peter picking up on his mom's power--now *that's* an interesting question. You know what, I am putting some pieces together here. Somebody else suggested, in the comments on this post, that Mama P has a foretelling ability. Peter has had prophetic dreams. We've always assumed that this was just a second thing he could do besides absorb power--but MAYBE prophetic dreams was just the very first instance of him absorbing a power! Maybe he absorbed it from his mom! After all, nobody else has a secondary ability. Wow, that would make so much sense.

Nathan hasn't told anyone he can fly, and I'm sure Peter hasn't confessed his absorbing ability to his mom--although he might have mentioned that he thinks he can fly. But if Mama P has a precog ability, then no wonder she wasn't surprised to find out they have powers. But if she *can* see the future, it's got to be a limited ability, since she didn't see Peter's death this week--she was really upset there. But then again we don't know that Isaac ever painted that, either.